This guy is really starting to impress me. It actually seemed as if he even got the basics of how the Federal Reserve system works. There are correspondents on CNBC who can't speak as lucidly about how the financial sector operates.

Full interview with CNBC below:

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=766989213&play=1

6/11/2008 11:53:31 AM

after 8 years of retard speak anyone will sound like Jesus.

OBAMANATOR!!!!!!!

6/11/2008 11:55:02 AM

BUT HE'S A COMMUNIST!

RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE

---

Quote :

"It actually seemed as if he even got the basics of how the Federal Reserve system works."

He must've been watching the GOP debates. Ron Paul explained how the Fed works in damn near every one he was invited to.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 11:58 AM. Reason : did he clap his hands when he said it, though?]

6/11/2008 11:58:21 AM

universal healthcare != free market.

6/11/2008 12:00:20 PM

No mandate != universal healthcare

6/11/2008 12:02:58 PM

having to come out and say you believe in the free market is like a white guy going "i'm not a racist, i have black friends"

6/11/2008 12:04:36 PM

More like it's having to defend himself from idiots who forward around the MUSLIM COMMIE SOCIALST BLACK PANTHER shit

6/11/2008 12:06:04 PM

^ That's probably what prompted this statement, honestly. I hadn't heard anyone called a Marxist in seriousness in years until I overheard a guy at the grocery store the other day arguing about Obama with his wife. Hilarious.

6/11/2008 12:10:19 PM

meh...this guy is a politician trying to appeal to more people, plain and simple...acting like this is some breakthrough and Obama is now all the sudden the biggest fan of a free market economy with limited government intervention is ridiculous

6/11/2008 12:10:43 PM

I love how the smear against Obama when he says stuff like this is that it sounds fairly centrist or whatever so he must be lying, whereas Obama supporters don't have to say that about McCain because he just comes right out with indefensible statements on a regular basis

6/11/2008 12:19:10 PM

What does this thread have to do with McCain? I'm pointing out that politicians say what they're supposed to say. It's as simple as that. But if you want to believe everything a politician says though, ANY POLITICIAN, be my guest. They're known for always telling the truth!

6/11/2008 12:22:20 PM

Quote :

"this guy is a politician trying to appeal to more people, plain and simple...acting like this is some breakthrough and Obama is now all the sudden the biggest fan of a free market economy with limited government intervention is ridiculous"

I don't want to be too dismissive but in my experience there is a very strong correlation between understanding how the market works and supporting it. Rare is the individual who "gets" capitalism but is not a capitalist.

There is substantial disagreement on whether or not the government should redistribute after the fact but most people educated on the subject agree that in general it is best to let the market determine what to produced and how it is to be produced.

This is a major step that the vast majority of Americans do not get.

6/11/2008 12:41:36 PM

Sounds like just words to me.

I pretty much gave up on expecting Obama to support or understand the market system when he said that lifting the gas tax would drive the price of gasoline UP!?
http://www.barackobama.com/2008/04/29/obama_on_gas_tax_holiday_a_gim.php

Now, you can easily argue that the price of gasoline would not change if you temporarily elimintated the tax (it depends on how elsatic the supply of gasoline is), but cutting the tax simply *will not* raise the price of gasoline.

And it isn't just little mistakes like this that make me skeptical of Obama's support of the free market. NONE of Obama's policy proposals suggest anything BUT extending government control over the market. Health insurance companies won't insure everyone? FORCE them to through guaranteed eligibility. Oil companies making "too much" money? FORCE them to pay more taxes. Trade "hurting" our workers? Imply you will FORCE people to buy American through renagotiated trade deals.

I mean really. Where is this deep "support" and "understanding" of America's market system?

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 1:14 PM. Reason : ``]

6/11/2008 1:04:56 PM

Quote :

"Now, you can easily argue that the price of gasoline would not change if you temporarily elimintated the tax (it depends on how elsatic the supply of gasoline is), but cutting the tax simply *will not* raise the price of gasoline."

temporarily eliminating the gas tax obviously wouldn't directly drive the price up, but I could easily see the gas retailers (not the oil companies, but the actual stations selling it) use it as an opportunity to increase their already narrow profits by compensating the final sale price, because they already know the customer is willing to pay that much.

anyway, it's obvious you'll take any reason to slam Obama. He was the only candidate who refused the gas tax holiday, a move which nearly every single economist in the world supports, and yet you find fault with him and not the numbskulls who support the holiday.

6/11/2008 1:16:34 PM

HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE OBAMA

6/11/2008 1:18:06 PM

i love how every post twista makes in soap box is to raise his little tattered flag in contest to anyone saying something positive about Obama. It's pathetic, get a voice and stop trying to wag the right-wing soap-box posters dicks all the time.

6/11/2008 1:30:49 PM

Quote :

"I pretty much gave up on expecting Obama to support or understand the market system when he said that lifting the gas tax would drive the price of gasoline UP!?"

ok, just read the post on Obama's site. give me a break - this is what he says:

Quote :

"This is an idea that, when all is said and done, will save you – at most – half a tank of gas over the course of the entire summer. That's about $28. It's an idea that some economists think might actually raise gas prices"

and this is the actual important part:

Quote :

"And we're arguing over a gimmick that would save you half a tank of gas over the course of the entire summer so that everyone in Washington can pat themselves on the back and say that they did something."

6/11/2008 1:33:28 PM

Quote :

"i love how every post twista makes in soap box is to raise his little tattered flag in contest to anyone saying something positive about Obama. It's pathetic, get a voice and stop trying to wag the right-wing soap-box posters dicks all the time."

replace 'Obama' with 'Bush' and replace 'right-wing' with 'left-wing' and you've described the majority of TSB over the last 7 years

do you love that too? or just when I dare to criticize the infallible Barack Obama, the greatest person in the history of the world?

6/11/2008 1:34:36 PM

agent,

Could it be that I only slam Obama because of his pitiful policy proposals, his lapses in economic knowledge, and overall lackluster performance as a candidate? I mean, I'm not a Republican. I protested against the war in Iraq, I volunteered for Democratic candidates in 2004, and voted straight ticket Democrat in '06.

Why else would I oppose Obama so strongly if it wasn't because of substanative policy differences?

Unless of course, I'm a racist.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 1:44 PM. Reason : ``]

6/11/2008 1:36:26 PM

agent,

If he can name a single reputable economist that actually said that, I would kiss his ass.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 1:42 PM. Reason : ``]

6/11/2008 1:37:50 PM

Twister, not worth the effort anymore bub. You're not even entertaining.

And socks, you are the same person that supported hillary's policy proposals and econonmic stances (which are nearly a match point to point with Obama's), but once she went down the shitter you changed as well. I think you're bitter sir....b/c someone who touts democrat party line like you do should know that Obama is rank and file.

Call it collateral or fallout but we don't need your vote this November to win...McCain is doing a job being one of the weakest candidates the GOP could put out there, and he'll be doing all the work here.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 1:54 PM. Reason : -]

6/11/2008 1:54:08 PM

not worth the effort after i embarrass your shitty trolling attempt by pointing out that you and your friends have been doing the EXACT SAME shit to Bush for the last 7 years that you claim I'm doing unfairly to Obama...why do you give a shit if somebody calls out Obama for his flaws anyway? especially when you've shown no mercy whatsoever towards the current President...OMG EVERYTHING IS BUSH'S FAULT RAWR RAWR...OMG HOW DARE YOU SAY SOMETHING BAD ABOUT OBAMA RAWR

i wish more people would just give up like you when they're pwnt though...i'll give you slight props for that

6/11/2008 2:03:07 PM

^^^ this study from MIT last year suggests that gas prices after the tax holiday is over are higher than they would have been otherwise:
http://www.mit.edu/~jjdoyle/doyle_samphantharak_jpube_may07.pdf

Quote :

"Using a unique dataset of daily, gas station-level data, 70% of the tax suspension is passed on to consumers in the form of lower prices, while 80-100% of the tax reinstatements are passed on to consumers."

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 2:07 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2008 2:06:21 PM

Hahaha, you are a self parody...listen to yourself rattle on about how your precious Bush (who is one of the most unpopular and ridiculous presidents in the history of our country) is a victim.....and you are just reacting out of defense of him giving your attacks on Obama justification. That is a freaking joke.

I mean, lol....if you look up your soap box post history the ratio of your Obama retorts and anti-terrorist fist jabs alone would overwhelm the entire lot of his supporters' comments put together.

If anyone is getting their fruitcake embarrassed it's you buddy. Have at it.

6/11/2008 2:11:02 PM

Once again, replace 'Obama' with 'Bush' in your post and you get exposed as just another hypocrite liberal moron who is calling out all of your TSB cohorts since Bush has been in office...I just wish you weren't so completely idiotic to realize it...its sad

6/11/2008 2:21:00 PM

Does Krugman work for you socks``?

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/29/gas-tax-follies/

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2008 2:25:22 PM

Quote :

"replace 'Obama' with 'Bush' and replace 'right-wing' with 'left-wing' and you've described the majority of TSB over the last 7 years"

totally unrelated, but I've admittedly been a bush basher over the past few years, but I actually gained a little respect for him when I recently read that he said he worded his speeches too harshly when leading up to Iraq, which hurt the world view of his admin and the us.

Quote :

"Bush voiced regret at divisions in the international community created by the war in Iraq, adding: "I think that in retrospect I could have used a different tone, a different rhetoric.""

6/11/2008 2:37:56 PM

i really like how the bulk of TreeTwista10's comments are usually "oh how dare you criticize obama" in attempts to provide a sarcastic response by means of using an over exaggerated and narrowed scope of an obama supporters response, you know, rather than contribute anything of substance in the form of a retort.

6/11/2008 2:42:15 PM

I love how you guys respond to TreeTwista and thus egg him on rather than ignore him.

6/11/2008 2:48:21 PM

Quote :

"I pretty much gave up on expecting Obama to support or understand the market system when he said that lifting the gas tax would drive the price of gasoline UP!?"

Actually the gas tax issue seemed to demonstrate to me his understanding of economics and willingness to push the ideas.

From the context of his speech he seemed to be suggesting that it would drive wholesale prices up. It could save you 28 but probably not because the price would be driven up.

On the other issues, did you watch the video or his speech in Raleigh?

His health care plan looks to me to be one of the least interventionist of the"universal plans"

On trade he is talking about relatively mild pressure to open foreign markets in exchange for opening ours as well as safety standards on imported products. Is this really that big of a deal?

As I have said elsewhere the excess profits tax seems unfortunate but given his other stances I want to learn exactly what he intends.

Even his policy towards the financial markets seems throughly reasonable. He says regulate investment banks but when asked for details he means capital and liquidity requirements if they are going to tap the discount window. Who disagrees with that?

6/11/2008 2:48:35 PM

IRSeriousCat

i only say "how dare you criticize obama" when someone blindly defends anything he says or does just because they like him and want "hope" and "change"...which seems to be the normal way of responding to anything slightly anti-Obama in TSB

maybe if he werent so untouchable, and the public could actually question him without being labelled a racist, this wouldnt be an issue

besides, when I bash Obama, people bash me? They don't defend Obama, they bash me (or McCain)...push the blame and fault to somebody else...just as long as its not Obama! How is that my fault? Oh yeah, everything is my fault because I don't slurp Obama's nuts as much as you guys

and also, anyone who isn't skeptical of a liberal socialist claiming he believes in the free market is gullible as fuck in the first place

YEAH I KNOW POLITICIANS LIE AND SAY WHATEVER THEY CAN TO GET ELECTED...BUT OBAMA IS DIFFERENT!!

6/11/2008 2:48:53 PM

You're not hard to bash, Twista. I've been on TSB a little over a week, and they're mostly right, it seems like your initial reaction is some variation of the same two sarcastic phrases. You can do better, man.

6/11/2008 2:57:27 PM

Quote :

"i only say "how dare you criticize obama" when someone blindly defends anything he says or does just because they like him and want "hope" and "change"...which seems to be the normal way of responding to anything slightly anti-Obama in TSB"

no one in this thread is "blindly defending" Obama.

On the contrary, in general there is much more blind criticism of him from guys like you than there is blind defense.

6/11/2008 3:00:18 PM

Quote :

"I've been on TSB a little over a week"

that explains why you don't yet understand how things work here

for example, Obama says he believes in the free market...a socialist all of a sudden believes in the free market now? I'm skeptical...sounds to me like just another politician blowing smoke up peoples asses...thats what common sense tells me

But if you're an Obama supporter...oh boy, I'm way off...he isn't lying, he's being sincere! How dare I call a politician a politician

Quote :

"no one in this thread is "blindly defending" Obama"

how do I respond to some blatant bullshit like that? people blindly defend Obama in every thread just like they blindly bash Bush in every thread...how is this new to anyone who has been here for awhile?

6/11/2008 3:00:57 PM

Go Ghost Editor

Go Go Ghost Editor

6/11/2008 3:02:40 PM

^^you do realize there are FAR more obama bashing threads right now than basically anything else, right?

and even if they're not directly bashing obama to begin with, they eventually get there.

6/11/2008 3:05:47 PM

^^how dare i clean up my posts from multiple edits when responding to multiple people

i must be hiding something!

^did you think it was equally unfair when an even larger majority of TSB threads were dedicated to bashing Bush? Double standards are awesome

Quote :

"it seems like your initial reaction is some variation of the same two sarcastic phrases. You can do better, man."

in case you didnt notice (which you obviously didnt) my initial reaction, evident by my first post in this thread, was that I was skeptical that someone who had previously advocated so many socialist policies now all of a sudden comes out and says he believes in the free market? that looked like typical political lip service to me, and thats what I said...AFTER, i might add, there were already a couple sarcastic comments by so-called intelligent posters...I stick with my rationale, but as soon as I choose to throw in a sarcastic statement, THAT is the statement that gets criticism...but please, you've only been here a week...keep drinking the anti-TreeTwista koolaid like many people here encourage...i mean why would you want the perspective of someone who looks at things different? i'd rather just see a bunch of posters praising Obama non stop...that would be a more productive messageboard

6/11/2008 3:06:22 PM

I can edit a post and delete the information from the multiple edits and end up with only one edit line in there.

The edit line is there for a reason, and that reason is not so you can skirt it.

6/11/2008 3:09:26 PM

I think the root of the issue is that you, TreeTwista10 feel that anyone who doesn't agree with your synopsis of the issues and chooses to defend it with simple reasoning is 'blindly' defending Obama, when in actuality they are only pointing out the obvious or the fallacies in your statements. Its not a blind defense when people continue to the defend when you're continually wrong in your statements. the labeled "personal attacks" arise from your requests for high caliber debate not coinciding with the childish response you so often deliver. I do agree that the attacks that are directed towards mccain, when used as a response to your points, are a bit of tu quoque, but, typically, they are being used to point out that mccain is not the messiah as you continually feel the need to point out about obama.

Quote :

"^did you think it was equally unfair when an even larger majority of TSB threads were dedicated to bashing Bush? Double standards are awesome "

I don't think he mentioned anything about it being fair. more so i think his point was that not everyone in TSB is out here to support obama and be the choir of his calls, contrary to what you state to be the case. your quote immediately above goes to further display the frequent exaggerations that you state and exhaustive conclusions you reach when attempting to maintain a reasonable discussion.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM. Reason : twistandshout]

6/11/2008 3:09:39 PM

I did enjoy this interview. gg bam bam.

6/11/2008 3:09:59 PM

kwsmith2,

So when you say that he "supports" the Free Market, what you really mean is that his proposals are less invasive than other more progressive politicians? I see.

Well rather than me trying to argue that Obama's proposals for further government intervention are infact "big deals", maybe you can help me see how Obama supports the Free Market in more than just words.

What policy proposals has he made that would reduce government involvement in the market? Or was it really just that one speech that "impressed" you? He really does speak so well.

PS* I don't see how you get that from the context of Obama's speech, since he actually didn't say anything like that. But whatever. If the gas tax is really that important to you, would you be suprised to learn that Obama actually actively supported a state gas tax holiday as IL State Senator?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/06/gas_tax/

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:11 PM. Reason : ``]

6/11/2008 3:10:14 PM

And if you cared to pull the steaming pile of shit out of your mouth, you would realize that Obama cites the failure of the Illinois gas tax holiday as a reason why he does not support the moratorium.

but no, you wouldn't. You would rather assume that the Obama supporters are ignorant fools and you are bringing light to the world.

6/11/2008 3:12:16 PM

^^and he actually used that IL gas tax holiday as part of his reasoning for not supporting this one. because it didn't work.

^ beat me to it

but of course obama doesn't have any experience to learn from

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:13 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2008 3:12:46 PM

you guys are ridiculous

i say "sounds like another politician being a politician" and that opens the door to "lets pick on TreeTwista since he didn't immediately believe that Obama has pulled a 180 and become a proponent of capitalism"

its like you're so far on his jock that when he pulls a complete 180 it doesnt even spark any doubts? i bet you believe john mccain is truly worried about climate change too...after all, he said it was a serious issue...it couldnt just be the politician in him trying to expand his base?

6/11/2008 3:13:47 PM

^^ It didn't work?

Apparently you need to tell economists Joseph J. Doyle Jr. and Krislert Samphantharak, who conducted the only study of the impacts of the gas tax holiday. They found that...

Quote :

"the suspension of the 5% sales tax led to decreases in retail prices of 3% compared to neighboring states. And when the tax was reinstated, retail prices rose by roughly 4%"

http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2008/05/06/gas_tax/

I guess Obama forgot to read that, too.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:16 PM. Reason : ``]

6/11/2008 3:15:21 PM

Quote :

"TreeTwista10 Boogie Down 65858 Posts user info edit post HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE OBAMA 6/11/2008 1:18:06 PM"

i think comments such as the above are what led to the characterization (which is much different than attack) regarding TreeTwista.


also please expound on how his statements show a clear and decisive 180. without saying that you feel, due to being a liberal, that obama is a closet marxist looking to take away the hard earned dollars for americans and give them to the lazy and weak so that you can justify your statement soundly.

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:17 PM. Reason : .]

6/11/2008 3:15:55 PM

Quote :

"And if you cared to pull the steaming pile of shit out of your mouth, you would realize that Obama cites the failure of the Illinois gas tax holiday as a reason why he does not support the moratorium. but no, you wouldn't. You would rather assume that the Obama supporters are ignorant fools and you are bringing light to the world. "

ahahahaha

^^ Holy shit, what an idiot - he just posted proof that the retail prices rose by 1%



[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

6/11/2008 3:16:46 PM

^^why dont you read my earlier posts in the thread instead of just harping over one post

or if its easier, just act like thats my only post in this thread and pigeonhole me that way

6/11/2008 3:16:57 PM

i actually pigeonhole you base on the many statements of that type you have made in numerous threads.

also, see my request in my last post.

kkthnx

6/11/2008 3:18:26 PM

or this:

Quote :

"Even though gas prices did fall when Illinois lifted its tax, it isn't clear whether the policy really helped consumers. Ralph Martire, executive director of the Center for Tax and Budget Accountability, says wholesale gas prices were falling even faster, and gasoline marketers simply kept the difference. "These companies basically took what would have been paid as gas tax and pocketed it as profit. And that's one of the inefficiencies you get when you rely on the private sector to pass along a tax break: They have a profit motive and they're going to use that motive," Martire says."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90309571

[Edited on June 11, 2008 at 3:20 PM. Reason : lnk]

6/11/2008 3:19:24 PM